Researching at a distance with Jo Sutherst and Sam Jones

In this episode I talk to Jo Sutherst and Sam Jones, postgraduate researchers at the University of Exeter, about their experience of studying for their research degrees at a distance. During the podcast we discuss:

• The Supporting PGR Writing project and our daily Shut up and Write groups

 

You can find Jo on twitter @JoSutherst and Sam @samjonesrnli.

 

Music credit: Happy Boy Theme Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

 

Podcast transcript

 

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Hello and welcome, to RD, D and the Inbetweens, I'm your host, Kelly Preece,

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and every fortnight I talk to a different guest about researchers development and everything in between.

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Hello and welcome to Episode three of R, D and the Inbetweens.

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This week I'm joined by two of our PGR's, Sam Jones and Jo Sutherst, who are going to talk to me about what it's like to be a distance PGR.

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So Sam and Jo were both distant students before COVID-19.

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And I think that this conversation is really timely because increasingly we're all working as distance students and distance workers.

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But also the likelihood is that sector is going to shift and we're going to have more more people studying

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at a distance because hopefully our online provision and support is going to be even better than before.

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So Sam and Jo, are you happy to introduce yourselves. Hi, I'm Jo.

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So first, I am a first year PGR in the College of Humanities in art history and visual culture.

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And I am based in the forest of Dean in Gloucestershire.

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Hello, I'm Sam Jones and I'm based in Tobermory on the beautiful Isle of Mull in the Inner Hebrides off West Coast Scotland,

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and I am a second year part time PGR in maritime history.

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So can I start by asking you both, why did you decide to study at a distance?

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So for me, I actually did my M.A. by distance through Falmouth University.

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I've been living in the forest of Dean for over 20 years and I'm really established here.

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My husband's work is established here and I didn't want to up sticks and move to university.

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And I when I started to look at the PhD course, I looked at my local university, it's University of Gloucestershire.

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And I also then looked to Exeter because of the distance programme.

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And for me, choosing a university where the supervisors match my kind of interests and can give me the best experience was important.

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And I wanted to study at Exeter, but I didn't want to move. So that's really why I chose the distance programme.

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What about you, Sam? For me, I think it was because the university has a specialist centre for maritime history

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and I discovered that it was possible to do an MPhil or a PhD via distance learning.

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So I got in touch with the department and said, this is the area that I'm thinking about working in.

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And they put me in touch with Dr Helen Doe, who is now one of my supervisors.

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Brilliant. And so can you tell us a little bit about the kind of day to day experience of being a distance PGR?

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Obviously, it's gonna it's gonna be markedly different from those they're based on or living near campus.

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Well, for me, it's I tried to get myself into a routine and get obviously just the normal getting up

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and getting ready in the morning and then sit down with the computer to start working

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sort of between nine and 10 and having access to things like the shut up and write

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sessions have been really good because they give you some structure to your day.

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And I then tend to work for two to three hours in the morning, have a lunch break and try and then and do other things for a while.

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Look away from the screen and really refresh the brain and come back to again in the afternoon.

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But I think it gives you flexibility.

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Working actually at home as a distance student, because if you're not well or like me, you have a medical condition.

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You don't have to work at set times you don't have to be in when other people are in the know in an office.

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If you if you're not feeling up to working in the morning, you can always shift your day and work later and work into the evenings.

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So it gives you a lot of flexibility. So days tend to be a bit more flexible.

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But I try to get that structure in of trying to do two to three hours in the morning and two to three hours in the afternoon.

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What about you, Sam, because you're obviously managing this part time with work.

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Yeah, I think I am. I think it's I think the point that Jo has made about routine is really, really important one.

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And this is kind of second time around for me. I did a doctorate 28 years ago now.

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In fact, I suspect there's some PGRs who weren't even born.

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My doctorate previously that was done full time with an economic and social research council studentship.

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And even then, I had a routine. I was very lucky.

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I was a research centre in Oxford and I had I shared an office, so I had a routine then.

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My routine now as a part time PGR is obviously very different.

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And I think that there's different pre and post lockdown, certainly pre lockdown.

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I was juggling it with a full time job.

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So. I would be working during the day and then take the dog for a walk at tea time, come back and then work on my, my, my,

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my thesis for a couple of hours, and I'd usually spend at least one day weekend, if not a day and a half at the weekend on on on university work.

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Post lockdown has been very different for me because my contract work dried up.

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So kind of flipped around and I'm not. I've basically been been working full time, but generally working during the day.

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Which is, you know, has been fantastic. It certainly kept me sane.

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Having having that discipline and like Jo, I've been, you know,

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shaping my weeks around the shut up and write sessions and having those sort of two hours in the morning and then two hours in the afternoon.

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And I'll generally work on a little bit afterwards. But it's just been fantastic.

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And it's and it's really, really supportive community. I was taking part in them before and in webinars.

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You know, since I started in 2018. But I think they have a very different feel to them at the moment.

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It's just a really, really supportive environment and a great community.

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And I would recommend them to absolutely anybody. Definitely.

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They've made a huge difference to me as well. You know, lockdown has has changed a lot of things for people.

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And although I was working from home on my PhD full time, anyway,

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the lockdown had a different impact on sort of mental health and mental well-being in that being in a shut up and write group.

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I can't go out, but having that community, knowing that every morning or most mornings and most afternoons,

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I'm going to be with a group of like minded people who are sharing some of those issues has made a massive difference.

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And like some is, you know, I would agree it's been a game changer,

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really having all of those sessions and access to those sessions that you can just step in and out if you want to.

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It has been a tremendous thing, certainly during lockdown.

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Because that was going to be one of my really crucial questions was about sense of connection and community.

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And you both obviously really experience that, particularly during lockdown.

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I'm interested to know how you feel like the opportunities for connection and for engagement with the university,

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but also that sense of community, you know, has. Has that changed?

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Has it got better because of lockdown?

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So has this kind of I guess what I'm asking is, has a lockdown provided kind of more opportunities for you as a distance student?

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I think so, I mean, I I've made quite a few trips down to the university to try and network with

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people before lockdown and so had built up some friends within the art history,

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visual culture area. And so that had been fine.

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But I think the shut up and write sessions in lockdown have provided a wider range of people to connect with at different stages.

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So I think it has made a huge difference in lockdown and it has got better.

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Yeah, I think it's got better in lockdown for me. What about you, Sam.

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Yeah, I think like Jo, you know, I try and get down to her when I can.

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Ironically, I haven't actually been on campus since May last year.

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Because I've been seeing my supervisors elsewhere in London, for example, and Bristol and having Skype supervisions as well.

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But certainly, I, I really, really enjoy coming down to Exeter and going on to going on to the campus,

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going into the library and and feeling connected in that way.

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And also, you have some very nice breweries down in Devon.

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So that's always really nice as well. But I think things have got better after lockdown.

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I find there's been some really excellent. College of Humanities webinars as well.

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That's Stacey Hynd's been running, which again, I think made me feel very connected.

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So we've talked a little bit about shut up and write and and the college webinars and also some.

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You've mentioned the fantastic programme that's offered in humanities.

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But what other ways do you primarily engage with and connect with the university as a distance student?

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I think there's a lot of engagement through Twitter as well.

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And, you know, following those different accounts and actually engaging with the conversations and discussions that's happening there.

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And that's not just what the doctoral college itself and the university, but also with.

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I mean, certainly for me, with the Department of Humanities, but with other PGRs

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And there's often conversations going on sort of in that Twitter sphere that are really interesting as well.

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That's that's another way that I found of engaging and connecting with other other PGRs and with the university.

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One of the things I found really helpful. It's the library and the ability to borrow books, obviously pre lockdown to have them posted out.

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It was very I was very fortunate. I managed to get hold of a I think back in February of a book that was was sent out to me by the university library,

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which if I hadn't had access to, I wouldn't have been able to write the thesis chapter that I had been working on for the last couple of months.

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But also the support that you can access through the library online.

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There's a little chat box. And I had some some really, really excellent help from from from the library staff over the last few months.

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Now, if I've been struggling to access a journal or struggling to find something and, you know, that's that's that's just been fantastic.

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A really, really good resource. And another way in which, you know, you do feel you do feel connected and you feel supported as well.

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What are the real challenges and the areas that we need to improve.

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I think a lot of it does go down to who you are as a distance learner as well,

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because you do have people who will just be content to sit back and not actually engage.

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But I like to engage with people, like to talk to people. And I've not really had an issue connecting with people in that way.

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I mean, I've enjoyed everything so far and felt really supported and really glad that

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I chose Exeter sort of distance learning as opposed to Gloucester University,

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which would have been on my doorstep and I could have been a face to face there. You've hit on the key point I think, which is about.

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Yourself, because obviously, you know, the fact that I've asked you to be on this podcast.

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Means that we've connected virtually and met fleetingly in person.

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You are both incredibly active on Twitter and in the shut up and write groups and the various other activities in the community,

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and I think that's probably. Well, I know, I know that's why you're getting so much out of your experience, because, I mean,

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to get the most out of any research degree, you need to be proactive and you need to be engaging.

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But I think that's even more crucial when you're at a distance. It requires an awful lot of work on the part of the student.

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And you both do that. Yes, it does. I mean, it during my M.A, which was a distance programme.

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We started as a cohort of twenty five on the M.A and people dropped out because they just

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couldn't deal with the fact that they were in this virtual community that was online.

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And that was the way that you connected with people. And then when we had face to face events where we would meet up,

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quite a few people wouldn't come because they couldn't make that transition between the two areas.

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So they couldn't transition from being distance to being face to face,

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or they were struggling themselves to actually engage with the content and engage with the rest of the cohort digitally.

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They would struggle and webinars because obviously they they just couldn't actually make that transition from real life into the digital world.

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And I think if you're the kind of person that is going to try and get the most

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out of it and you are prepared to put some work in to make those connections,

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I think that it's it's all there for the taking.

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It is down to you to actually make a bit of effort to no one's going to hand you it a plate and say, hey, you are here's your

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Nice little you're going to talk to you do not actually need to go.

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Hello. I'm here. I'd like to be involved. How can I be involved?

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And I think you know your personality. If you're deciding to do a distance learning programme, you really need to look at.

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Are you disciplined and organised individual? And can you actually make links with people over sort of digital and virtual networks?

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I think that's absolutely right, Jo.

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I think, you know, I think it's it's like many things in life, the more that you put into it, the more that you you get out of it.

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And, you know, I know that I am very fortunate that I've worked from home for the best part of 20 years.

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You know, obviously with travelling around and travelling into workplaces and things. But so I'm used to having that discipline.

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I have a spare bedroom, which is, basically it sounds glorifies

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it to call it a study. To be honest, it's just full of piles of books and papers and and photography gear and stuff like that.

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But I have that space where when I'm in here I'm either working or I'm studying.

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You know, it's not somewhere where I'll come and sit in at night to watch. a film on my my screen or whatever.

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So I have that difference between, you know, when I'm in my kitchen or I'm in my lounge.

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That's my kind of downtime when I'm in here. I'm either working or I'm doing university stuff or I'm doing RNLI stuff.

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So I think, you know, I'm very lucky that I've got that.

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And I know that, you know, more widely in the community, you know, sort of outside the university.

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But I know that during lockdown,

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a lot of people have been struggling with that transition from being in a workplace to all of a sudden working from home and

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having to do home schooling at the same time finding out that your partners got really irritating habits that you didn't know.

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And, you know, so so I kind of I feel that I've I've I've I've kind of coming from quite a strong position anyway.

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But I think I think it's true.

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It is it it is what you what you what you put into it, what you what you choose to invest, you know, you will get repaid.

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You know, in in triplicate. I think the one thing that I think I'm, I miss is having that face to face contact.

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You being able to pop into, you know, if you were based at university, being able to, you know,

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go and chat to other PGRs, you know, just without having to sort of arrange a call or or whatever.

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And I think just going into the library and being able to browse, you know,

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it's great being able to search the catalogue and look on, you know, I mean, didn't the electronic resources that we have now.

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I mean, I don't know how I managed to complete it in 1992.

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Had I don't know how that worked. I know I spent a fortune on photocopying, that's for sure.

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But. You know, just being able to go and browse the shelves and think, oh, that's that's interesting,

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that's that's an angle that I haven't, you know, I haven't thought about. So I think, you know, I just I just love libraries and bookshops anyway.

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So for me, you know, whenever I'm I'm I'm down in Exeter, then, you know,

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I do spend an inordinate amount of time in the library, quite often browsing books that have to be.

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Oh, so. Yeah, I. But I think some.

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For me, I find that it's working very well. It was working very well before lockdown.

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I've got two great supervisors, very, very supportive.

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Dr. Helen Doe and Dr. James Davey. And but I think since lockdown.

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You know, I think I think there's been like a step change, really.

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And I do think a lot of it has been shut up and write groups.

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It's you know, that they have been I think they're a real success story at the moment.

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Definitely. And I think for people who are used to being actually at the university,

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realising that this can all still happen in the virtual world and they can still feel connected.

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I think that it's actually been quite an eye opener for them and perhaps makes them realise how different it is being a distance student.

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But actually, for a lot of those people who have been struggling potentially with having to go and

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work from home or go back to their families and working from their childhood bedrooms,

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they realise that they can still connect with people.

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And I think, you know, in that respect, I think some of myself are lucky because, you know, we chose this way to learn.

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Other people have sort of been thrown in the deep end.

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So I think we've been a bit perhaps a bit more resilient to the changes and the issues around lockdown.

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But, you know, I think that's made a big difference for us, being able to actually help other people as well, saying, you know, it does work this way.

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You can learn this way and we can make steps progress. Well, I think.

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Yeah. Yeah. So say I think we're a little bit lucky in that respect because we were used to it.

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But I think it has got a lot better. And that community is building and building and building.

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Being proactive in getting the most you can out of the experience seems to have been the the thread of this whole conversation.

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The. You know, being a distance student requires you.

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To be much more proactive. But because it requires that of you has the potential to make the experience richer.

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I think, um, I think project management is is a is really important as well.

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I've worked as a programme manager and a project manager in previous lives,

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and I think that's a really useful skill to bring, especially at the moment.

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Now, where a lot of people that, you know, they may have had a really good project,

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plans for their research, and all of a sudden it's they've just been torn up.

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You know, people are unable to get into.

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People are unable to go and carry out, you know, face to face interviews if they're working in social science, for example.

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And those of us who are working in history are unable to get into archives.

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There is you know, there is material available online. But, you know, the really important stuff, you know, inevitably, generally isn't.

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So it's you know, it's having to then re, you know, replan and and not to.

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And having your project plan, being a living document as well, not to sort of producing it and then thinking, well, that's that.

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I've done that for the upgrade and now just sort crack on and, you know, put it away in a in a drawer somewhere.

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It's it's actually living thing and and managing risk as well because, you know, the.

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The future is uncertain.

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You know, from a personal perspective, I don't know when I'm going to be able to get back into the archives that I need to get into.

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I mean, I'm fortunate I'm still at a relatively early stage because I'm only my second year part time.

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So first year equivalent. So there is a lot that I can still be doing.

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But there is going to come a point where it's kind of I really do need to get into the archives or get back into the archives.

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And so it's it's it's very challenging.

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And I think it's and I think. So that's a sort of extra layer of challenge, if you like, to people who are perhaps not used to.

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To, you know, to working from home to working from from a distance. And that gives you another skill, obviously,

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that we could have brought up earlier about resilience and actually being able to

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bounce back when things are presented to you that you are beyond your control,

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that affect your work and actually being able to to think outside of the box almost.

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And think of another way of attacking some of that work and perhaps progressing with a different part.

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Being able to pick things up and put them down.

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And I think being distance does take give you a lot of resilience and a lot of ability to be able to be flexible in

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what bit you might be able to do because of the resources and things that are available to you at that point in time.

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If there are people listening who are thinking about starting a distance research degree or even changing.

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Yeah. To studying a distance, if they're midway through, what advice would you give them?

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I think the main thing for me would be.

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Be realistic about whether or not you are disciplined and organised enough to do it from home because it sounds great working from home.

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But if you are just going to be at home distracted by the tele and your family and animals or other activities, and you're not going to commit to it.

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I think that you need to give it some serious thought. You need to understand that it's still a research degree.

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It is still either full time or part time. And you need to commit a certain number of hours to it in order to get the most out of it.

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And I think if you and if you don't have a supportive network around you, people who understand that when you're at home,

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it's not that you're at home and your available to go out for coffee or whatever, that you are at home and you are working,

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then that's also quite important and being realistic about where you might work in a do you have that space at home?

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Do you have an area that is good for reading an area? Good.

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That's good for writing those kind of things or being creative, whatever it is you need to do.

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So you need to make sure that you've got access to those spaces that you can distinguish between that and your home life, basically.

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I think that's all really, really good advice. I think it's I think you have to ask yourself very, very, very firmly.

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Do you have the commitment? Do you have the passion to do this?

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Because when you're waking up on a Sunday morning, if you're a part timer like me and the sun is out, your friends are, you know,

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having a barbecue and you've got to start you've got to spend eight hours reading about Victorian charity and philanthropy,

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you know, because you you you have to you have to have that commitment.

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You have to have that discipline. And it you know, it's it's not always easy.

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I had some very good advice from a friend who had done an open university degree who said, you know,

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when you come to do your studying in the evening, don't take a break from from from from from, you know,

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don't have some downtime between work and study because you'll you'll not do it because you said that's what I found, is that, you know,

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if I just thought I'm just going to have half an hour and, you know,

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watch the news or whatever, then before you know it, you know, it's two hours later.

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And your actually I'm too tired. And so I goes back to this point.

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That routine is, you know, I would finish work, take my dog out for a for a walk, come back and then bang into into the study.

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And so it's having it's having that commitment, you know, do you do you care?

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Do you really, really care about this this this thing that you want to research because you need that that fire to keep going when your mates are

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all having a lovely barbecue in the sun and in on the one day that the sun comes up here in Scotland and you've got a deadline,

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you've got a you know, you've you've got to stay indoors and.

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So it is. And I think I think the point that Jo made as well about having a support network around you.

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It's really important. And having a workspace is is really important.

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And just if you're a few of the right, you know, if you're the sort of personality who is willing to be proactive and is willing to to to make.

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To make the most out of out of this and and and keep going.

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I. Yeah, those are all the sort of things that I would say.

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But if if if you want to do it. The support is there for you.

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From the university. Definitely. And, you know, you'll you'll find it ironic.

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I didn't actually I haven't actually visited the first time I visited the campus of

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Exeter was for my PGR induction because I knew I was going to be working at a distance.

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And what mattered to me was, was having that sense for maritime history,

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that having having that that interest there and having been able to access the support.

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So it was a really lovely surprise when I turned up and realised that it's really, really beautiful campus.

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And I think our beautiful campus is probably a really good note to end on.

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Thank you so much to Sam and Jo for taking the time out of their day to talk to me about being a distance PGR and really share some

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important insights into what that experience is like and the kind of person you need to be to undertake a research degree at a distance.

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So is going to become more and more popular, I think, in the kind of post COVID 19 World.

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And so I think it's it's crucial that we get the message out about how positive and connected and supportive that distance research experience can be.

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And that's it for this episode. Don't forget to like, rate and subscribe and join me next time when I'll be talking to somebody else about researchers, development and everything in between.